People & Nature with James Bays

In this episode of the Streaming Science: People & Nature podcast, Dr. Jamie Loizzo speaks with Jim Bays, a retired ecologist and leader of Stewards of Our Urban Lakes (SOUL), about the power of community-driven conservation and the role of co-production in environmental stewardship. Drawing on nearly five decades of experience in wetland and lake ecology, Jim shares how his work has evolved from technical science to engaging communities in hands-on restoration, education, and long-term stewardship of urban lakes. 

The conversation explores how building relationships, fostering a sense of agency, and “reading the room” are essential to successful conservation efforts, as well as how small, local actions can create meaningful environmental impact. With reflections on birds, community identity, and finding purpose through stewardship, this episode highlights how science and people come together to care for the places we share.

Stewards of Our Urban Lakes (SOUL): https://www.soulinc.org/

People & Nature: https://tbep.org/people-nature-symposium/

Transcript

Jamie Loizzo

Welcome to the Streaming Science Project and our People and Nature podcast series. I'm Dr. Jamie Loizzo with the University of Florida's Department of Agricultural Education and Communication. In this series, we're exploring how people interact with nature and the environment around them. We attended the first ever People in Nature Symposium at the UF IFAS Austin Carey Forest Campus. We interviewed leaders, innovators, and visionaries in conservation, social science, and we're excited to share with you what they had to say. On this streaming Science People in Nature episode, we're joined by James Bays. We call him Jim. He's a retired ecologist and the leader of the Stewards of Our Urban Lakes, or SOUL, as it's known, based in St. Petersburg, Florida. Jim has spent his career studying wetland treatment systems and lake ecology, and today he works with communities to restore urban lake shorelines, remove debris and invasive plants, and he creates hands-on opportunities for people to learn about environmental stewardship. He's also deeply interested in how social science can build stronger connections between science, communities, and the natural resources we all depend on. Let's tune in to this interview with Jim.

Jim Bays

So, I'm Jim Bays. I'm the chairman of Stewards of Our Urban Lakes. Our acronym is SOUL. It's a lot easier to say, and it's got kind of a a vibe to it because we are focusing on what we believe are often the soul of a community or a lake. That is a centerpiece that is focused on their common shared space, typically in a lake park or in a lake. So that's what we do in terms of our focusing, what area we're on. And what we do there typically are things like cleanups and shoreline plantings and education projects and monitoring and so forth. I'm in that position because I am an ecologist. I retired three years ago after a long career, almost 50 years in consulting for major engineering companies. And in that career, I worked on wetland and lake projects all around the world and was involved in very interesting and beneficial wetland creation projects for water quality and habitat. So I I am deep, deeply enmeshed in that whole technology. And even though I'm retired, I still do this on almost a daily basis. It's wired into me, right? Yeah. And so, I've lived in Florida since 1978 when I came to Gainesville to go to the University of Florida, majored in environmental engineering science. Before that, I received a bachelor's from Ohio University. in Athens, Ohio, in environmental biology. Along the way, before then, I worked out west as a wildlife ecologist and a field biologist. And it's always been biology forever for me. It'll be 50 years since I received my bachelor's degree in just a... this year. So that's how I got here.

Jamie Loizzo

It goes fast and slow all at the same time, right? Well, it's amazing. And we're at the end of the first day of the People in Nature Symposium. And you and I were talking earlier that you've even sampled the water right here behind the Austin Cary Forest in this new building that we're in. And we were looking at this, what do you call this, a lake, a pond?

Jim Bays

This is Lake Mize.

Speaker 4

This is Lake Mize.

Jim Bays

Okay. It is, well, on an acreage base, it's not very large, but it is remarkably deep. It's 100 feet deep. It's one of the few, there's a handful of lakes in Florida that have a very similar kind of... vertical chimney-like configuration. It's a straight down shot up under feet. But yeah, this was one of my study lakes in my master's work in 1979. So, it's neat to come back. I had no idea it was here when I drove up, so I thought, It's familiar.

Jamie Loizzo

It's full circle. It's kind of a strange day when things like that come together. So, it's been a long day. We ended with a really great discussion, though, a panel discussion about co-production of conservation work. And you were on the panel. So, can you tell me a little bit about that discussion and what the panel was about?

Jim Bays

Yeah, the entire panel is titled Making Co-Production Work. A co-production is a term describing the Production of knowledge, agency, and identity through collaborative participation of professionals and the public, the community. The intent here is that there is a reciprocity in the knowledge gain and in the results of the actions taken, where the people participating are now imbued with a sense of agency, and that is, they have an influence over their common topic. In our case here, it's lakes. And so, the intent there is to learn how to create that production of knowledge and that production of shared agency. It's not just simply about creating cleanups for people to go and do something good for the environment. The intent there is completely to make them agents for a positive change, in our case at least. And then this conference really has done a great deal for me in terms of bringing some of those terms of art to the surface and helping me understand more beyond simply, you know, how do we recruit and retain volunteers. It's been great, actually. I've loved it.

Jamie Loizzo

Yeah, it's really amazing. And I mean, you come from this illustrious career and long knowledge and background of water, water science, environmental science, but you're at the People in Nature Symposium, and now you work with SOUL. How did you get into the social science side of the science?

Jim Bays

Well, that's a really good question because we have been working with the Tampa Bay Estuary Program for years. We received multiple mini-grants from them, and that's helped fuel our process and our growth. And they advertised this symposium several months ago, and I thought it looked very attractive because it was focused on the human side versus simply in my technical background, I focus on the wetland side or the ecological side. And I realized I just don't think I know all the things I need to know about how do you work with people and And bring them into your organization, so I thought I'd just take a shot at it, and they liked my abstract, but I think they wanted to say, Let's just, instead of just another rote recitation of a research project, let's get them on the stage and... share some of their experiences and make that the attractive thing for the audience to listen to, I think. And I'm really grateful for it. I really have learned quite a bit.

Jamie Loizzo

I loved the discussion. I teach a participatory arts-based research class, which is all about co-production, using art with communities to understand what's happening and lived experiences. So, I was back there clapping and snapping and loving all the things you all were talking about. It was a great session.

It was.

Jim Bays

That was neat.

Jamie Loizzo

Yes. Tell me, in your work with SOUL, you are working with a lot of stakeholder groups, a lot of the public, the communities. How are you navigating that? How do you do that? And what are some maybe lessons learned or advice you have for people about working with conservation groups?

Jim Bays

Oh, boy, there's a lot to convey, I think, you know, because these things start out very innocently, right? I'm going to help clean up that lake and going to organize a group, and we'll just do the best we can out there. And no doubt, this leads to improvements visually, aesthetically, ecologically. But there's this challenge of sustaining the effort, right, and avoiding burnout to the leaders and retaining as many of the volunteers as you can through whatever process. So, that leads to a lot of questions about how do we do that? I think co-production theory, this conference has a lot of answers to that. They all center around Improved education, meaningful education, improved communication, the kind of communication that's not necessarily what you find in an academic setting, right? It's all about building excitement, building familiarity, building identity with the site. So right now, in our work in SOUL is that we are really involved with 10 different lakes in the city. We're not studying or participating in each lake equally. Some were out there every month doing very specific and physically laborious planting projects and cleanups. Others are more of an assessment or more of a gentle guidance on things. You have to have an approach that sort of matches the appetite and the interests of the community. You can't just simply go in there with a prescriptive approach. And this is also one of the lessons of co-production theory is that you can't just have the technical experts driving it. You have to have a reciprocal response. And that's what we're trying to listen for. And whether we're doing it well or not, I'm not so sure. I think there's tons of room for improvement, right? But that is really my goal, to learn more about that, to do more of that.

Jamie Loizzo

Well, and I've heard a few people at this event say that, it's not, conservation isn't one-size-fits-all. You can't say, the science has told us everyone should do it this way. And then everyone does it this way, but then it doesn't work for their context or their environment.

Jim Bays

This is the case in the lake business, so that is the science and application of lake technology and lake ecology. It is pretty much axiomatic that every lake has its own characteristics. Yeah, you can certainly group them by broad categories of trophic state or nutrient concentration or water clarity, things like that. But how they got there and what drives that process is unique to every lake. So that is the model, I think, for how you approach the community for every lake. I mean, we work with communities that range widely in terms of their economic structure. And so, what works in one probably doesn't work in the other. and what gauges it, what gets their attention and builds their enthusiasm is different. And so as one of the panel discussions, Jonah, in a way, he said it very nicely, you read the room, right? I thought that was a great way to put it, you know. So, there's a bit of a kind of a mutual interrogation that goes on, I think, with the community and with the, in our case, the nonprofit organization. You march in there with your theory, you might not like the outcome, right?

Jamie Loizzo

What is it about lakes and rivers and just water for you, from Ohio to doing work around the world, to Florida, to people in nature? What is it about our water that has driven you to do all of this work?

Jim Bays

If there was a common element, besides just the, you know, the interesting details of algae and nutrients and zooplankton, the animals that eat the algae, the whole a lake ecosystem, if there's something beyond that for me, it's with birds. I'm a bird watcher and I've always supported building habitats for birds. Everything that I've done, I've tried to build around the idea that we're making things a little bit better for birds, even if it's just a small pond like we're looking at here or a thousand or 10,000 acre wetland. It's like my thinking is that It'll be better for birds when we're done. And that's a driver for me. And I think it's actually probably an underutilized Ave. for us to share and build enthusiasm for what we do, is to teach them about birds and how great they are.

Jamie Loizzo

Charismatic species. We heard some of that today when people see how the habitat can benefit the creatures we love. We're going to care more to do more.

Jim Bays

Exactly right. And so, then it gets back to, how does one find the time to do it? Because making those connections is something you want to do, the connections with the community, but to do it one by one is infinitely long in time requirements, right? So, I'm just here to learn more and more about how we can do a better job with our social media platforms and use whatever communication avenues makes sense to in our setting here. That's what I want to learn more about.

Jamie Loizzo

Yes.

Jim Bays

Because I think that's the way to get further faster.

Jamie Loizzo

Yeah, to bring in the community, to get them to do the work together and support it. So, what advice do you have to someone who might be listening, like they're still working, they have lots of hours at work, they have a family, or they're doing all their things? How do we have some time to participate in conservation or to join a group like SOUL or just from what you've seen? We don't have to have scientific answers, but just from things you've seen or experienced, like do you have advice for people like me who are trying to get involved, but it's a lot to juggle these things.

Jim Bays

It is a lot, honestly. And I try to be very sensitive about it because as I've said, I've got the benefit of being retired. So theoretically, I have all the time in the world to chase these things. Of course, I've spread myself so thin. That's not true, right? I still have to pay attention to that. And I have a family. So, I have to be careful with that. But I do think, based on what I've seen in the participants that we've really had a chance to talk to, it's like there needs to be a hands-on demonstration of one's performance to really make it sink in. That will help clear the schedule, because in our group, There's a number of people who have many options on how to spend their Saturday mornings, but they always choose to help us out. They're dedicated to it. They're bitten by the bug, I was just saying, you know. And I think, like, even in your case, if there was that kind of a neighborhood ecological restoration activity, you'd find time for it, because the feedback is immediate and And over time, even further strengthening it, you want to spend that time. And that is the key. That's when that conversion from the shared action of just a cleanup, a simple physical thing, converts into that sense of agency and identity. That's really what we want to foster. And honestly, I just think that people will find that if they keep looking for it. Yeah.

Jamie Loizzo

I love the name SOUL for those reasons. Like, stewards of our urban lakes acronym SOL. And it's this idea of yes. It's this science-based thing we're coming out to do and improve our environment, but it's also kind of this human thing we're doing that we heard a lot about mental health, equal spirituality, things like that today. And I feel like Soul is already like ahead of showing people those things.

Jim Bays

Well, you know, it's neat to hear you say that because the name is constructive with a lot of thought behind it, you know. But we really didn't We certainly didn't want to convey any particular sense of religiosity to this thing. We just wanted to have that meaning, that connection of something that's deeper than just simply the physical.

Jim Bays

Even though that will be different for everybody else. Yes. And also, we wanted to make sure that the stewardship was prominent. It's a word that people don't use very often, steward, are you a steward of this or that? No, it's like, it implies ownership. It implies a sense of pride, a sense of civic engagement. it has an end point. It's not just simply management. It's if something matters to you, you're going to care for it. And that's what we're trying to... That's what we're trying to do, lake by lake, really.

Jamie Loizzo

Yes, I love that. I mean, and like you said, spirituality does not have to be the typical perception of it. can be whatever it is to you, and that's where you find what's your motivator and come participate. So conservation can be kind of overwhelming, though, if you think about all the things going on and you're one person or a group. Do you have advice for people, like, how to not get overwhelmed, to think about what they can do to participate?

Jim Bays

I love the question and I have an answer for you.

Jamie Loizzo

Good. I want to know, yes.

Jim Bays

So, the thought here is that there is a lot of environmental concern there, legitimate environmental concern these days. There's a lot going on. It's not all great at all, although there are certainly positive stories to tell. But I think you can tell your own positive story. I think you can create your own positive story by participating in a group like this. but for your actions, that square meter of literal zone wouldn't exist, in our case here. So, you can look at that, and that is something that it's undeniably real, it's tangible. You know, you did that. And this is the lesson I've learned from talking with our more, our longer-term participants. They They have seen this system grow, and they're very proud of it. And they know that there's all this other stuff going on. But in that one square meter, now you have a carbon fixation, oxygen-producing ecosystem there that wasn't there before. Or if it was, it wasn't diverse. It wasn't native. And that's what we strive for. That's really the goal, I think.

Jamie Loizzo

That's a great outcome to see. Like, yeah, that's amazing. I'm just so excited to have met you today. The People in Nature Symposium, first time they're doing it, hopefully they will do more in years to come. We're fellow Midwesterners who have migrated around and ended up here of all places, caring about Florida, caring about the planet. So just any final thoughts or things you would like to add about today or looking to the future you help people listening keep in mind.

Jim Bays

Well, it's a common story, right? People have come here because of the wonderful environment we have, you know, and I wouldn't deny that to them, although it's a big challenge how many people are living here. But you know, there's a There's A proverb saying that from problem comes solution, right? that is people really do are problematic. The growth of population for us is highly problematic. But their ability to participate in cleanups and the kind of activities we do, the funding that can be, that they can bring to these projects is a mitigative step. It's not the, It doesn't prevent the problem necessarily, but it does mitigate that impact, and it creates a mindset, I think, that might not otherwise exist, but before these kind of conservation groups and conservation activities, so... I'm not saying bring them all on, I'm just saying let's use the people that we've got here in a constructive way, and I think we'll see some improvements.

Jamie Loizzo

Solutions oriented.

Jim Bays

Yeah, we see all these are as opportunities, not burdens necessarily, right? And so, we just have to get people aligned in the right and thinking like that.

Jamie Loizzo

Yeah, I like the constructive solutions approach. That's the way to do it. I think, I don't have any more questions, but I have one last thing I want to know. Do you have a favorite bird or two then? If that is your love, your creature.

Jim Bays

Yeah, I do have a favorite bird, but it's in South America.

Jamie Loizzo

Okay, that's all right.

Jim Bays

It's beautiful. Anybody listening might want to just look that up. It has a fantastic, magnificent wing display when it unfolds. But of course, it's a wetland bird, so that matters to me too. Of course, I love all Florida birds, but that is one that ever since I've seen them and my birding trips, it's been on my mind is, okay, that is a beautiful bird. But anyway, but I do love all birds, and I think that it's a unifying, it's a unifying understanding, to all the things we do.

Jamie Loizzo

Okay. Well, thank you. I know it's clearing out, so we will go, but it's been a pleasure to meet you.

Jim Bays

A real pleasure.

Jamie Loizzo

We will link up SOUL and everything for listeners to be able to find it and people in nature. But I'm so glad our paths have crossed.

Jim Bays

Oh, yeah. Thank you, Jamie. I've loved the opportunity. Thank you for inviting me to participate in your podcast. Appreciate that.

Jamie Loizzo

Thank you for listening to Streaming Science, the People in Nature podcast series. I'm your host, Dr. Jamie Loizzo. A special thanks goes to our guest, Jim, for sharing his ecology background and expertise with us, as well as information about the SOUL organization. To learn more about our guest and their work, as well as Streaming Science, the Tampa Bay Estuary Program, and the People in Nature Symposium, see the links in our show notes.